In another thread, someone said that human nature is evil, selfish, and self-indulgent. Do you agree?

I tried to vote untrue but it would not let me.

Me too--also "false".

"False" is not an option, because that position does not cohere with objective reality.

Either that or something is wrong with my server.

Part of my objective reality is to observe the behaviour of a majority of human beings would tend to be compassionate for someone in need. I think it is in our nature to not be selfish, unloving, and self-indulgent as we mature into beings that are more intelligent than most of the other animals. Even a majority of the ones who do not, and are selfish, unloving, and self-indulgent recognize that as not the right way to be.

Without it, all of us wouldn't be trying to make a better world for our children, no matter how mistaken we maybe in our goals.

People are happy to help, to contribute to everyone´s well-being and quality of life when
- they are sincerely asked (not demanded, not emotionally blackmailed, not threatened - IOW: when they can be sure that a yes or no answer will be accepted) and
- the request doesn´t require them to deny or work against their own needs.

Humans are gifted with empathy, and all it requires to make them act upon their empathy (and to enjoy doing so) is an appropriate - likewise empathic - approach towards them on my part.

I would argue that this is the largely unrecognized aspect of human nature, not human nature in its totality. If it were the totality of human nature, it's doubtful that the goodness we are capable of exhibiting would exist at all.

If we are going to talk about humans or human nature, it would be best to see it for what it is, not a romanticized version of what we would like it to be.

In His Grip,

christian_concern@yahoo.com

Gom wrote:
Of course. But one could argue that there is strong evidence for both views. I don't see how you could "prove" your statement, any more than I could "prove" what you see as a fiction. I see your view as a fiction as well. Some people are evil, selfish, and self-indulgent. Others are not. We are complex beings.

I think the nature of human beings is that we have the potential to choose how to live our lives: we can choose to behave in evil, selfish, and self-indulgent ways--or not. All of my closest friends, for example, have made the choice not to behave in these self-destructive ways (and, by chance, most of them are not associated with any organized religions: their reasons for behaving in constructive rather than destructive ways stem from ethical standards not directly associated with organized religion). Of course, many people associated with organized religions have made similar choices to behave in ethical rather than destructive ways.

I would suggest that there is probably not a human being on the planet, of any age, who has not, at one time or another, exhibited all of those features to some varying degree. But my point is that these things aren't mutually exclusive. It's simply that one aspect is ignored, dismissed, or otherwise rationalized away, while the other is focused on and romanticized to the distortion of our true selves.


Yes, it is possible to have a choice, but it still be impossible for us to perfectly choose to be good rather than any of the negative aspects mentioned. We have all ratified this truth in our own lives, and to the extent that we deny this, we are being less than honest about our own nature.

In His Grip,

christian_concern@yahoo.com

Even if we intend to behave always in ethical ways, we sometimes fail. But that does not mean that "human nature is evil, selfish, and self-indulgent." It is as foolish to claim that our nature is all evil as it is to claim that our nature is all good. I repeat, we are complex beings.

What it doesn't mean is that we are exclusively evil, selfish, and self-indulgent, which is something I'VE NEVER ARGUED. What I have argued is that part of our human nature is the universal example of evil, selfishness, and self-indulgence. We all know and readily accept that human beings are capable of good and beautiful things. No one really rejects this because it speaks positively about us. But we are all also universally capable of being evil, selfish, and self-indulgent. And as I said previously: And it is my contention that anyone being honest about human nature must recognize that its imperfection, demonstrated in various forms and degrees of evil acts, is an integral and inescapable aspect of it. As such, it must always be taken into account. Not doing so is both dangerous and foolhardy. We are complex beings, but we are most basically imperfect. How do I know this? Because despite what we claim are our desires, every single human being on the planet, of any age, will exhibit evil tendancies. In short, it is impossible for us to not be bad.

In His Grip,

christian_concern@yahoo.com

Would you also say that it is impossible for us not to be good?

In the same way it's easier to detroy something than to construct something, I believe it is easier for humans to be bad than it is for them to be good. However, I certainly accept the notion that it's at least virtually impossible to find a human being who's never done anything good.

But it's the idea of our inability to not participate in evil that is the controversial notion.

In His Grip,

christian_concern@yahoo.com